Curse

strat_53711 · Jan 05, 2008, 05:57 PM // 17:57

The original post was designed to invoke thought on how the game has changed.

I based my original post on ANET offering some kind of reward for users who work together as a team to accomplish a goal. This reward would be customized. It would have no impact on individual wealth. It could not be exploited. If you were not interested in doing it, it wouldn't impact gamplay.

The thought behind single classed teams was to encourage non cookie cutter builds. To get different character classes to explore different areas.

People have posted that forcing certain style play is bad, this idea isn't forcing anything for game play. It reward would be cosmetic only. Participation would not be a requirement of the game.

Guild Wars game cycle is being phased out, ANET's development effort is based on bringing GW2 online. What I suggested in the original post would require minimal development and add some excitement to the game.

ANET could release these special PUG areas on a weekly basis, create a new title for PUG play, give the reward after doing x amount of PUG missions.

I asked ANET to throw us a bone (maybe a weekly bone), to encourage PUG game play, keep people interested in GW until GW2 comes out.

I guess what I'm asking for is something similar to the Moa Egg and Rainbow Phoenix. Both were great idea's but they only affected players who wanted to tame a pet.

Nevin · Jan 05, 2008, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Something more along the lines of... Completing with no Heroes/Henchies would make more sense.. Not forcing 1 of each.

freekedoutfish · Jan 05, 2008, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by strat_53711

With all the changes made in the game, it's sad to see that the Guild Wars world has evolved mainly into parties formed with Hero/Hench groups.

And this was a shock to you? You bought a game knowing it had AI to help with playing and your surprised by the result!

You cant offer a reward for PUGing which will make it unfair on those who like to solo or use AI. It will push those away who like to AI.

What about when your in an area (like SF) and you cant find a pug and you have no choice but to use heroes and henches. You will get less reward for completing it. How is that far when you had no choice?

Anyway, there is plenty of PUGing ingame. The only reason some areas have less PUGing is because less people play there, or people find that using heroes is more effective then using humans.

Again, the lack of PUGing in some areas is not the fault of the heroes and henches. It the fault of the attitude of a minority of players who make PUGing undesirable.

I dont want to be forced into PUGing with a bunch of immature idiots, just to get a chest reward, and potentially ruin the entire experience!

The ability to use AI is one thing which makes GWs superiour to other games, because in a game like WoW you can spend days trying to find a team to join with to do a quest or dungeon and you get bored.

In GWs youu can just jump in and get on with it and we shouldnt punish those who choose to do that. Just join a decent guild and use them to pug!

But if you really want a reward for PUGing, making it something that is non-materialistic;

Make it so you earn 6.25 or 12.5% (or round it up to 6% and 12%) more experience for every human in your team! That way if you have a full 8 human team you will get either 50% or 100% more experience from killing.

That is alot more far and you dont have any materialistic advantage over anyone else. Yes it would lead to power leveling in PUGs, but leveling to 20 is easy anyway!

strat_53711 · Jan 05, 2008, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danax

1 Primary in a group? Are you insane! Groups for NM or HM usually have at least 2 monks.

Thats closed minded thinking, try playing with a Healing Ritualist in your party.

strat_53711 · Jan 05, 2008, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Spirit

/signed becuase people can choose to PUG if they want. And if ANet wants to reward them for it GG...

But even if there was a reward, I still wouldn't PUG.

Any virtual reward cannot outweigh the real life frustration of PUGing...

Yes, it could be frustrating. But if the reward was cool enough, I bet you would try it.

strat_53711 · Jan 05, 2008, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by quickmonty

/not signed

because:

large guilds could exploit the hell out of it

ps. maybe I should /sign, then my guild can do it for 'special reward' week after week after week .....................................

And get the same custom reward?

strat_53711 · Jan 05, 2008, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinraith

Punish solo and small group players and we will, rightfully, take our business elsewhere. It's not in Anet's best interest to bribe people to play together. If you're intent on playing with others and can't find a group, join a better guild. If you still can't find anyone to play with you, it's not the game, it's you.

Its not a punishment (Loot nerf was a punishment or was it an adjustment). It is in ANET's best interest to retain players excitement in the current game.

strat_53711 · Jan 05, 2008, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanyatta

Ever think that one of each primary class would be difficult to get? I rarely see Paragons or Mesmers around Sorrows Furnace.

Also, people that want more PUGs, most likely fail with heroes/henchies hardcore.

Again because of the perception that non standard classes aren't useful.

If the reward was interesting enough, people will switch and run all their classes through. I have one of each character class. Even with just 4 character slots, most players have at least 2 different classes.

When I farmed Sorrows Furnace, I was willing to play Stance Tank, SS Nec, MM Nec, Healer Monk, Bonder Monk, Splinter Barrager, Nuker, or any other build that the group wanted.

If you go to Sorrows Furnace today, you rarely see anyone forming groups. Why? No excitement!

strat_53711 · Jan 05, 2008, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

/notsigned
just NO! pugs these days ignore Rangers, Mesmers, Assassins and Ritualists as they always have.
Cookie Cutter will take over.
I also agree with what Loki said, it would fail out loud.

Again, not if they required having the PUG have 8 different primary classes.

strat_53711 · Jan 05, 2008, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by mystical nessAL

Wow, did you really think about this idea alone?

Yes. I wanted to express my desires for the following:

1. Enhance interest in PUG play.
2. Provide a reward that can't be exploited.
3. Give players something new to do (maybe on a weekly basis).

Vinraith · Jan 05, 2008, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by strat_53711

Its not a punishment (Loot nerf was a punishment or was it an adjustment). It is in ANET's best interest to retain players excitement in the current game.

PUG players getting more stuff than non-PUG players is a punishment for non-PUG play. You're right that it's in Anet's best interest to retain player excitement in the current game. Consequently one of the worst things they could do is damage the enthusiasm of a massive portion of their player base that does not enjoy PUG play by telling them that they're playing the game wrong.

You enjoy PUG play, no one's stopping you from doing so. I enjoy playing with friends or alone. What you propose is that Anet should reward you for playing the way you enjoy and not reward me for playing the way I enjoy. Neglecting "fair" for a moment, how is that in anyone's interest but yours and those like you?

strat_53711 · Jan 05, 2008, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

So...basically you want them to create a new farming spot because you can't get a group for the ones we have right now (Slaver's, DoA, etc)? What makes you think that you'll be able to get a group in this area; people will still be discriminatory and exclude people, be jerks, or just run with guildies. And, even if you did manage to grab a PUG...congratulations, now you get to do it all over again, because PUGs aren't forming anywhere else. FUUUN!

Not really. The reason why PUG farming groups aren't forming anymore at these spots is that the economy is screwed and people aren't willing to spend the time for the rewards.

My idea is to provide non exploitable reward, requiring multi class interaction.

strat_53711 · Jan 05, 2008, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by RotteN

newsflash : pugs do not work, and the reason why people do not pug is not because they're anti-social. The sheer failure of pugs (only 1 of the 8 people has to behave like an idiot to ruin it for the other 7) in general is the main reason.

Getting a reward for pugging is like getting a lollypop after your brother was roadkilled. The con's still outweight the benefits by miles

The reason why PUG's no longer work or form is because its more RELIABLE to do quests and missions with Hero/Henchies (not necessarily easier).

Isileth · Jan 05, 2008, 08:08 PM // 20:08

What about the players that purchased the game to play with AI?
What about those players that only have time to grab an AI team?
What about those players that have had players go afk without warning for 20+ mins?
What about those players that have had insults throw at them in PuGs?
What about those players that have to go afk themselves quite often? Should they join a PuG and then just dissapear screwing the rest of their team?

There are so many reasons why allowing pugging and h/h is a good idea. Neither is "the right way" to play the game, both are completely viable.

Dont start trying to give rewards to one group.
Why not give both rewards?

That gets players together to do pugs for those who want to but without only rewarding the one playstyle.
It would deffinately achieve more pugging if thats what your after, without penalising those who h/h.

Fril Estelin · Jan 05, 2008, 08:19 PM // 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Make it so you earn 6.25 or 12.5% (or round it up to 6% and 12%) more experience for every human in your team! That way if you have a full 8 human team you will get either 50% or 100% more experience from killing.

I like the idea, but I would downsize this to 1 or 2% more per human (above the first one), not to alienate the part of the PvE community that wants to be left alone.

Vinraith: if you enjoy playing GW solo, why are you so bothered by what happens to others? This feature would not change anything to your game experience. IT would only be a "punishment" if you were to compare your gameplay experience to others', but then that would contradict the fact that you want to be left alone, wouldn't it? It sometimes seems (don't take it too harshly, it's not meant to be mean) that you want to force people into acknowledging that you exist and that your way of playing the game should never ever be changed, modified, threatened, etc.

The very funny thing is that this feature is here to encourage PUGing. Thus it acknowledges from the very start that this is rare and getting rarer, thus the non-PUGers actually are the ones winning. And by far.

You can't see me · Jan 05, 2008, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Since no one seemed to read my argument on page 2, I'll point out the many flaws in this argument right here.

I'll say it once, and I'll say it again here. There's no reason that PuG play deserves any more reward than hero play or solo play. You ARE punishing hero players because you're giving more reward for a playstyle that YOU PERSONALLY enjoy. That's NOT productive at all.

Where's my extra exp for playing with heros or playing solo? Why should I get more reward for playing with humans? I'm not playing this game to play it the way someone else enjoys. I'm playing to accomplish things the way I feel comfortable, and there's no reason that between you and I, you should be rewarded for doing option A versus option B.

I'll use this anology again. If person X lifts a weight with the help of his friend, and person Y lifts it with a pulley he's constructed, but they both lift the same weight, why on earth should person X recieve a better reward?

If you want to play with people on a regular basis, there are guilds out there that support this idea. You can also chat with them 24/7, not just play with them. If you want to be sociable that's fine, but there's no reason being sociable should be a factor in the reward system for accomplishing a certain task. There's no reason to encourage PuGing. Playing with reliable people is an option that's openly available through guilds and alliances. There's no reason to give human players more reward for taking humans than heros. Both do the same thing, but one of them does it better in a lot of cases. Rewarding the players that choose to take longer to accomplish something is not the answer.

And about the limited to one class per party idea, I expect you have not gotten past the first few missions in the entire game, across all campaigns. There's no way you could accomplish things with this kind of party set up, unless everyone in guild wars knew every single detail about the game, WHICH THEY DON'T.

You can't go and tell people how to accomplish a task. If you give them one in a game, half the reason they enjoy it is because they can go about it any way they want. Taking away that option is totally pointless, and does not encourage anything other than encouraging people to quit the game due to lack of skill from other players who play these classes.

This idea fails. This thread fails. YOU fail.

Isileth · Jan 05, 2008, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

Vinraith: if you enjoy playing GW solo, why are you so bothered by what happens to others?

Just because people go out and play combat solo doesnt mean they play it as a solo game.
When the economy is effected by other players.
When any possible changes to h/h depend on how many people use it.

Its an online game, other people effect and are effected by others.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

This feature would not change anything to your game experience. IT would only be a "punishment" if you were to compare your gameplay experience to others', but then that would contradict the fact that you want to be left alone, wouldn't it? It sometimes seems (don't take it too harshly, it's not meant to be mean) that you want to force people into acknowledging that you exist and that your way of playing the game should never ever be changed, modified, threatened, etc.

Rewarding people for playing one of 2 styles the game advertises has an effect.
There are already huge limits on h/h as it is.
Only 3 heroes
No PvE skills
Poor AI
Access to some areas denied.

Now you want to add rewards that you can only get by pugging?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

The very funny thing is that this feature is here to encourage PUGing. Thus it acknowledges from the very start that this is rare and getting rarer, thus the non-PUGers actually are the ones winning. And by far.

Then if that many people h/h can we finally get 7 heroes?

You can however encourage pugging without denying access to those who dont pug.
As I said, reward both styles of play.

The idea behind this is to get more people to pug with yes? Its not to reduce those who h/h. So as long as there are more people to pug with its achieved.

Adding rewards for pugging and h/h will mean players who have drifted off or dont play as much will come back for those rewards. But neither playstyle needs to be put ahead of the other.

Fril Estelin · Jan 05, 2008, 08:56 PM // 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by You can't see me

I'm not playing this game to play it the way someone else enjoys. I'm playing to accomplish things the way I feel comfortable, and there's no reason that between you and I, you should be rewarded for doing option A versus option B.

How should we phrase it? No one forces you to PUG. Or may be in bold? No one forces you to PUG. Italic? No one forces you to PUG. Underlined? No one forces you to PUG.

So now for the real problem: you feel less rewarded if that feature was implemented. Let's be honest and fair to you here, that's perfectly true. So how do you think we could make this game more social? How do we give incentives to people to not be jerks? ... ah well, you don't care about that, that's not your problem and you don't want to hear it.

I guess it's the end of discussion here, we just hit a big heavy wall.

You can't see me · Jan 05, 2008, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

How should we phrase it? No one forces you to PUG. Or may be in bold? No one forces you to PUG. Italic? No one forces you to PUG. Underlined? No one forces you to PUG.

So now for the real problem: you feel less rewarded if that feature was implemented. Let's be honest and fair to you here, that's perfectly true. So how do you think we could make this game more social? How do we give incentives to people to not be jerks? ... ah well, you don't care about that, that's not your problem and you don't want to hear it.

I guess it's the end of discussion here, we just hit a big heavy wall.

Then stop suggesting the idea, as I've pointed out many times that it's not fair to those who enjoy a different playstyle then you.

They're called guilds. They were designed for the very purpose you describe and are now doing their duty better than ever. I suggest that if you cannot find people to play with, you join a guild that supports this playstyle, as there are plenty of them out there.

As for the last part, the game does NOT need encouragement to play one style versus another. Maybe in italic? It is not needed to encourage one playstyle versus another. Maybe in all three?

There is no need to put one playstyle over another in a game. This is the end of the story.

Tender Wolf · Jan 05, 2008, 09:03 PM // 21:03

/not signed

Some people, like myself, hate doing things with PUGs and prefer heroes and henchmen, because they at least somewhat listen. Sure you occasionally get a good PUG especially if it's with friends or people you trust but still, a reward just for that? I think that's a bit much.